The validity of Calorie input vs. output and its effect on weight loss/gain
July 14, 2008
I am doing an experiment right now testing the validity of Calorie input vs. output and its effect on weight loss/gain. My hypothesis is that calories have little to nothing to due with weight loss and weight gain! Please give me your opinion!!
For example how can 4 oz. of chicken with 196 cal. have the same effect on the body as 2 Oreo Double Stuff Cookies with 140 cal.? All calories are counted as if they are the same. 4 oz. of lean ground beef has 308 cal. ---1/4 cup of M&M's has 210 cal, a McDonald's hamburger has 260 cal.--- 1/2 cup seedless raisins has 250 cal., 1 cup cooked white rice has 160 cal.--- 1 cup cooked brown rice has 166 cal.!!!! How can those be compared? Brown rice has more calories than white!
To give it a fair chance, I am writing down everything I eat and counting all the calories as well as grams of fat, carbs, protein, fiber, and refined sugar and taking note of how many servings of fruit and vegetables I am eating. I write down what kind and how much exercise I get every day and also how active I have been that day. This Dietminder, personal food and fitness journal really is very helpful, it has places for all these entries and more. I am keeping track of my weight and measurements (the journal also has a section for tracking your weekly progress), after what I consider an adequate period of time I will determine whether my hypothesis is correct or needs adjusting. Then I plan to try different methods! I would like to hear your suggestions for those too!
Sept. 8, 2008
Okay here is an update. I have not lost much weight, maybe half a pound, but I have lost 2 inches from each of these areas waist, hips and each thigh! 8 inches all together! I have actually increased my eating some because writing down makes me more aware of meal times. And I try to exercise three times a week and just be more active in general. Last month was hard for me emotionally because it was the one year anniversary of our infant son's death. And I know its bad but I did do some emotional eating (which generally is unusual for me) and some weeks I just didn't have the strength to exercise. But I am back on track! My husband, Tyler, and I have started to play tennis! I want to play at least once a week, I really could do that for the rest of my life!! Tyler has always loved tennis and is quite good, I had never played before. He is teaching me, and I just love it! Last time we played (the first time in 3 years and only the third time in my life) we played for an hour and a half and it only felt like 30 min!!! I am having so much fun, living is a lot easier now (because I am much stronger) and Tyler is ecstatic!
Okay, now I have been learning about calories. I was very surprised when I heard someone say that all things can turn to body fat. Of course I had heard that Carbs and sugar did, but this lady said that protein and fat also will turn to fat in your body if you do not burn it off right after you eat. Now I have never believed that before but I would like to hear what you have to say about it. If it is true than why is the Atkin's diet so effective (although I do not believe that it is healthy). And meat is very very high in calories! (one 8 oz. steak is 846 calories)
Also I have another question. If I were to work very hard to lose weight now, lets say I started exercising 6 days a week. I do not plan to exercise 6 days a week for the rest of my life but according to this same lady if I lost the weight exercising 6 days a week then I cut down to 3 times a week I would gain back the weight. Is that true? It seems to me that I would have to work much harder to lose the weight than I would to maintain my lower weight once I reach it. So please, if you can, shed some light on this issue for me!
Something else that she says is that you should eat your body weight times ten-- so if you weigh 150 pounds, than you should eat 1500 calories to keep your metabolism the same and if you eat less than your metabolism will go down. (Which means you will be burning muscle not fat.) I have never heard such a thing before, but to me 1500 cal. sounds like not very much food! (one 8 ounce steak, one potato with 2 tablespoons of butter and 16 oz of milk equal more than that!! It would equal 1566 cal.)
Lastly, I have a question on the opposite side of the issue. My husband lost a lot of weight when our son died and we want him to gain it back (plus some!). So what are your suggestions about gaining weight in a healthy way, he really would like to bulk up too, is there a way to do that in a healthy way without protein powder and other strange and processed things (like creotine etc.). He does a lot of walking at work and we think that he has a particularly high metabolism.
I appreciate your insight and I can't wait to hear your responses to these issues that are puzzling me. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond!
Nov. 23, 2008
Sorry it has been so long since I have added to the discussion/experiment, Eva, my baby has been teething for months!!!! Any way, I have lost a number of pounds, though I am not sure exactly how many, (we don't have a scale and it has been over a month since I weighed myself last.) I'm thinking around 10 lbs. We found out at the beginning of this month that I am pregnant. So now I am planning to continue the experiment but tailor it to pregnancy. Thank you so much for reading and leaving comments!!
I am doing an experiment right now testing the validity of Calorie input vs. output and its effect on weight loss/gain. My hypothesis is that calories have little to nothing to due with weight loss and weight gain! Please give me your opinion!!
For example how can 4 oz. of chicken with 196 cal. have the same effect on the body as 2 Oreo Double Stuff Cookies with 140 cal.? All calories are counted as if they are the same. 4 oz. of lean ground beef has 308 cal. ---1/4 cup of M&M's has 210 cal, a McDonald's hamburger has 260 cal.--- 1/2 cup seedless raisins has 250 cal., 1 cup cooked white rice has 160 cal.--- 1 cup cooked brown rice has 166 cal.!!!! How can those be compared? Brown rice has more calories than white!
To give it a fair chance, I am writing down everything I eat and counting all the calories as well as grams of fat, carbs, protein, fiber, and refined sugar and taking note of how many servings of fruit and vegetables I am eating. I write down what kind and how much exercise I get every day and also how active I have been that day. This Dietminder, personal food and fitness journal really is very helpful, it has places for all these entries and more. I am keeping track of my weight and measurements (the journal also has a section for tracking your weekly progress), after what I consider an adequate period of time I will determine whether my hypothesis is correct or needs adjusting. Then I plan to try different methods! I would like to hear your suggestions for those too!
Sept. 8, 2008
Okay here is an update. I have not lost much weight, maybe half a pound, but I have lost 2 inches from each of these areas waist, hips and each thigh! 8 inches all together! I have actually increased my eating some because writing down makes me more aware of meal times. And I try to exercise three times a week and just be more active in general. Last month was hard for me emotionally because it was the one year anniversary of our infant son's death. And I know its bad but I did do some emotional eating (which generally is unusual for me) and some weeks I just didn't have the strength to exercise. But I am back on track! My husband, Tyler, and I have started to play tennis! I want to play at least once a week, I really could do that for the rest of my life!! Tyler has always loved tennis and is quite good, I had never played before. He is teaching me, and I just love it! Last time we played (the first time in 3 years and only the third time in my life) we played for an hour and a half and it only felt like 30 min!!! I am having so much fun, living is a lot easier now (because I am much stronger) and Tyler is ecstatic!
Okay, now I have been learning about calories. I was very surprised when I heard someone say that all things can turn to body fat. Of course I had heard that Carbs and sugar did, but this lady said that protein and fat also will turn to fat in your body if you do not burn it off right after you eat. Now I have never believed that before but I would like to hear what you have to say about it. If it is true than why is the Atkin's diet so effective (although I do not believe that it is healthy). And meat is very very high in calories! (one 8 oz. steak is 846 calories)
Also I have another question. If I were to work very hard to lose weight now, lets say I started exercising 6 days a week. I do not plan to exercise 6 days a week for the rest of my life but according to this same lady if I lost the weight exercising 6 days a week then I cut down to 3 times a week I would gain back the weight. Is that true? It seems to me that I would have to work much harder to lose the weight than I would to maintain my lower weight once I reach it. So please, if you can, shed some light on this issue for me!
Something else that she says is that you should eat your body weight times ten-- so if you weigh 150 pounds, than you should eat 1500 calories to keep your metabolism the same and if you eat less than your metabolism will go down. (Which means you will be burning muscle not fat.) I have never heard such a thing before, but to me 1500 cal. sounds like not very much food! (one 8 ounce steak, one potato with 2 tablespoons of butter and 16 oz of milk equal more than that!! It would equal 1566 cal.)
Lastly, I have a question on the opposite side of the issue. My husband lost a lot of weight when our son died and we want him to gain it back (plus some!). So what are your suggestions about gaining weight in a healthy way, he really would like to bulk up too, is there a way to do that in a healthy way without protein powder and other strange and processed things (like creotine etc.). He does a lot of walking at work and we think that he has a particularly high metabolism.
I appreciate your insight and I can't wait to hear your responses to these issues that are puzzling me. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond!
Nov. 23, 2008
Sorry it has been so long since I have added to the discussion/experiment, Eva, my baby has been teething for months!!!! Any way, I have lost a number of pounds, though I am not sure exactly how many, (we don't have a scale and it has been over a month since I weighed myself last.) I'm thinking around 10 lbs. We found out at the beginning of this month that I am pregnant. So now I am planning to continue the experiment but tailor it to pregnancy. Thank you so much for reading and leaving comments!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Randy McFarland on -
Hi Tina,
I totally agree with your hypothesis. The best program I have found for weight loss is called Transitions Lifestyle System. This program focuses in on the Glycemic Index. It is not about calories but works on a number system using the Glycemic Index. The program was designed by a Dr. and is amazingly effective. I personally lost 25 lbs. This program focuses on losing body fat and not muscle and water weight which is what most diets will do. As its says it is a Lifetime commitment to healthier eating habits. If you want to do some research on the program let me know and I can send you a website link.
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Permalink Reply by Tina on -
That sounds interesting. And obviously it really worked for you! How are you doing with keeping it off? Is it difficult to follow this program? To stay on track, I mean? Tell us more about it. Potatoes are pretty high on the Glycemic index aren't they? I really love potatoes! Please tell us more about your experience with this program!!
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Permalink Reply by Audrey on -
Hi Tina, great group and topic!
I tend to agree with your hypothesis - would love to see it tested for real - take some people who eat sugary/junky foods exclusively, but restricting to a "weight loss inducing calorie level" and then take a group who eat the same amount of calories but healthfully, and see the result.
I kind of wonder if the first group would even be able to maintain the restricted calorie level? Or would their blood sugar roller coaster and lack of nutrients drive them to crave to eat more and more? I tend to think they would have a difficult or even impossible time avoiding overeating, and that in fact, not so much the calorie level is the problem (if they could stick to it, perhaps they would in fact lose weight), but that a person who eats that way can't stick to the weight-loss-inducing-calorie level.
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Permalink Reply by Tina on
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In fact my good friend is doing just that! She loves sweets and really dislikes veggies. Her goal is an 1800 cal. diet every day. (We have a little weight loss group, comprised of relatives.) My intention is to compare our results after a sufficient period of time. I am drinking a lot of homemade juice (I love it!) and eating a lot of salad and veggies and meat and potatoes and corn on the cob (which, the last three, have tons of calories). I am actually eating a pretty high cal. diet; let’s see how it turns out! I am nursing my three month old, so my cal. output is a bit higher and I am trying to exercise at least 3 times a week. Not huge! Not that difficult! I'm so excited to see how it turns out! Tomorrow is our second meeting; we all started our "diets" a week ago. I'm curious to see how everyone is doing, and if I have lost weight (I am fairly certain I have! I don't own a scale.) But the truth is what I am really interested in is inches lost! We'll have to wait until tomorrow evening to find out!!
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Permalink Reply by Cindy Kelly on -
Here's what I think:
Anytime a person goes on a restrictive diet the pendulum will always swing back at some point. The body/mind feels that it needs to make up for what it's been missing. Restricting and counting calories is not sustainable. Anytime we go on a "diet" we will always gain the weight back because it is only that, a diet, and not a way of eating for life.
Weight loss is such a simple matter....but so complicated too! Eat less, exercise more....what could be more simple? And as far as maintenance....theoretically if we just eat a variety of whole foods (as nature provides them), and we take our time to enjoy and taste everything we put in our mouths......it should be impossible to gain weight (unless a person is a complete couch potato). However, taking in to consideration emotional issues, chemical imbalances, glandular problems, Candidiasis, food sensitivities etc. etc. It makes the picture WAY more complicated! Some nutritionists live by the 80-20 rule suggesting that if you eat natural, whole foods 80% of the time, and allow yourself to eat less than perfect foods the other 20% of the time you should quite easily be able to maintain good health and weight. Food is an addiction for most people, so it tends to be quite difficult to be that moderate. Also, most of the population do not truly understand what healthy food is and are seduced by the marketing of highly processed foods as being "health" foods. Until we figure out why we are addicted to our drug of choice the weight issues will not go away. I try to examine the above mentioned health issues and figure out which problem, or combinations of problems, are at the root of the eating disorder. Until that is dealt with any attempt to lose weight is futile, and every weight loss is followed at some point with an even heftier weight gain (because that is how our fat cells work). I truly believe that every success story is either due to people getting to the root cause of their problem eating (the prefered method), or living a struggle of abstinence (which sounds pretty miserable if you ask me).
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Permalink Reply by Tina on
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Well, part of my experiment is to see how well I lose weight by only increasing my exercise; keeping my eating the same.
I believe that we are more like 90-10 with our healthy eating. We never eat partially hydrogenated oil or MSG or artificial sweeteners. We try to never eat high fructose corn syrup. We cook almost all of our food from scratch, eat as much organic as we can afford and drink homemade fruit and vegetable juice often. We take organic whole food supplements regularly.
We really love the book, Nourishing Traditions by Sally Falon. We believe that she has discovered the truth about nutritious eating. It is certainly a lifestyle for us-- and has been for a few years now. I have to admit that I am kind of a fanatic about healthy eating according to the recommendations of Nourishing Traditions, ask any of friends or my mother-in-law, Candy Snowbarger, they can attest to the fact.
Most people are confused about what is healthy. There are so many voices out there yelling, but actually, most of them follow the same general concepts. I believe that we must pray for wisdom and understanding from God in order to discern truth. Then we need to study and learn all we can and integrate the things, which we believe to be true, into our lifestyle. I wanted to open this group so that we can all study and learn from each other.
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Permalink Reply by Wendy Brooks on -
I totally agree with your hypothesis. I joined Weight Watchers in February of this year. We write down what we eat, and how many “Points” what we eat is worth. The Points we are allowed is based on our current weight, level of activity, etc. I have found that if I eat unhealthy foods and yet stay within the number of Points I am allowed, I will not lose weight at the same rate as when I eat healthy foods – at least 5 servings of fruits and vegetables; and lean meats/fish/protein, low-fat dairy foods, and whole grain foods. In 6½ months, I have lost over 45 pounds and went from a size 20 (1X or 2X) to a size 12 (Large.) So I know from experience that if I want lose weight, I need to choose the right foods, not just eat the right amount of calories.
Exercise has played a large role in my weight loss as well. Muscle burns more calories than fat. I have walked/ran over 570 miles since the second week of February.
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Permalink Reply by Tina on
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Wow!! That is amazing! Congratulations!
Thank you for sharing your experience, it definitely validates my hypothesis.
Do you think that you can continue this-- in order to maintain your ideal weight-- for the rest of your life? I think that is important.
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Permalink Reply by Wendy Brooks on
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Thanks! Yes, I believe I can continue this for the rest of my life. I don't want to go back to what I was 6 months ago. If I don't make wise choices now, I will be forced to deal with illnesses and conditions caused by my poor eating and exercise habits later. People have said that they don't think they can do what I have done. They think eating healthy and walking daily is too hard. I say facing diabetes and dialysis 3 times a week is what is hard. Dealing with heart disease caused by poor eating habits is what is hard. I say buying plus size clothes is hard! I only wish I had not waited until I was 50 to get motivated to to change my eating and exercise habits!
I'm glad you started this - it is very good "food for thought"!
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Permalink Reply by Jill B on -
This is a very interesting topic, and all of these posts are wonderful! It is so true that "a calorie is not a calorie." Healthy calories are obviously more beneficial than "empty" calories. I also agree with your hypothesis that just cutting calories won't work, and here is why. Some individuals (those that are prone to weight gain) have a mechanism in them called the "thrifty gene." (Lucky us.) What that does is enable the body to store fat very efficiently if it suspects famine (such as calorie restriction, carb restriction, fat restriction, etc). This was a great attribute in the time of the hunter-gathers, but with a fast food restaurant on every block, we don't really need it! Nonetheless, it is still there. If you drastically cut calories, your body will slow down its metabolism to conserve energy.
I love your idea of testing the low calorie theory and seeing how others do on it as well. However, there are different body types, and when two people eat the exact same food they may have drastically different results (that's why one person can eat whatever they want and another gains weight by looking at a brownie!)
It's all about balance and eating low glycemic foods in the right proportion with protein and healthy fats for your body type. If we eat how our bodies were designed to eat (along with physical activity) we will naturally get to our ideal weight. If you keep your blood sugar stable (by eating low glycemic carbs) the weight will come off. If you eat high glycemic carbs (candy, white potato, white bread) your blood sugar will spike and you will store fat. There are also heart health benefits to eating low glycemically. There is a survey that you can take to find out your body type (there are basically 5 different types). If you are interested, let me know and I can send it to you.
Low glycemic eating is relatively new to this country and sounds complicated, but it's really not. The trick is to keep things simple so it's not just a "diet" but becomes a lifestyle.
Best of luck to you!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Cindy Kelly on
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I think that blood sugar imbalances are a still kind of a "chicken or the egg" kind of situation. Usually if there are blood sugar imbalances it is a result of other issues. Certain people are drawn towards eatinf high glycemic foods for a reason.....
Just my two cents :)
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Permalink Reply by Tina on
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I think that I might not have been clear. I am not reducing my calorie intake at all. I am only counting how many I have eaten. My other friends in the weight loss group are reducing their calorie intake though. I am eagerly anticipating the outcome.
The glycemic index sounds intriguing. Avoiding refined products is very important. We hardly ever eat refined flour or sugar. We believe there is a big difference, in how our bodies react to refined sugar as opposed to rapidura and sweeteners that are not refined-- Tyler can feel a significant difference. We think Tyler might be pre-hypoglycemic, so he almost never eats refined sugar any more.
As a side note, Tyler did a liver cleanse and he hardly feels those effects anymore; however, he still avoids refined sugar.
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